Forums - [Translation] CvS2 Throw Data Show all 29 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- [Translation] CvS2 Throw Data (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50868) Posted by hyt on 01:04:2002 08:28 AM: [Translation] CvS2 Throw Data Capcom Vs SNK 2 Throw Data Guide Information taken from the Capcom Vs SNK 2 Millionare Fighting 2001 Official Guidebook by Famitsu (Released 12/22/2001, ISBN4-7577-0677-4) This guide contains information regarding normal throws and command throws in Capcom Vs SNK 2: Millionare Fighting 2001. It will cover frame data for each normal and special throws as well as their ranges for all the characters in the game. Should you find different values in another guide, I'm just giving it to you directly from the book so believe whatever you wish. ======================== Section 1: Normal Throws ======================== The same theory for normal throws in the original CvS holds for CvS2. Punch throws execute quicker than kick throws, but are easier to tech hit. 1.1 Throw Rules --------------- You cannot tech a throw when you are: - in the execution frames of a special move or super move. - in a roll. - running. - evading. - dizzy. - Guard Crushed. - Charging your S-Groove meter. - Breaking a stock in N-Groove. 1.2 Frame Data -------------- Punch Throws: 3 frames Startup, 4th frame is the execution frame. A punch throw can be teched within 7 frames after the execution frame. Kick Throws: 5 frames startup, 6th frame is the execution frame. A kick throw can be teched within 3 frames after the execution frame. Air Throws: 0 frames startup (i.e. instantaneous). Cannot be teched. 1.3 Throw Ranges ---------------- For most characters, their normal throws have the same range, regardless of whether you use the punch or kick button. A throw's range is measured in "dots" or "pixels". What is this relative to? Imagine that your character's sprite is enclosed in a rectangular box and that there is a vertical line splitting that box in half. The reference point would be where the vertical line touches the bottom of the rectangle. So if your character's throw range was say, 44 pixels, you would begin measuring from that reference point. The common range for a normal throw is 52 dots. In a more practical context, if the foot of your character's sprite touches the foot of your opponent's character's sprite, you are in the maximum range for a throw. However exceptions to this fact are: Maki, Yun, Rolento, Raiden, Hibiki, and Chang. Maki: Punch Throw - 60 dots Yun: Both Punch and Kick Throws - 44 dots Rolento: Both Punch and Kick Throws - 60 dots Raiden: Punch Throw - 83 dots Hibiki: Both Punch and Kick Throws - 44 dots Chang: Both Punch and Kick Throws - 64 dots For air-based throws, the horizontal and vertical range is still measured from the same reference point. For example, if your character has an air throw that has a 52 horizontal range and a 45 - 60 vertical range, then you opponent's sprite must be with a box that is 52 dots wide, 45 dots above your character's sprite's reference point and 15 dots high. Here are the ranges for the characters which have air throws: Ken: Kick Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 54 - 64 dots vertical. Chun Li: Punch Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 70 - 78 dots vertical Guile: Punch Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 62 - 70 dots vertical, Kick Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 78 - 86 dots vertical Vega: Punch Throw - 26 dots horizontal, 78 - 86 dots vertical, Kick Throw - 26 dots horizontal, 78 - 86 dots vertical Cammy: Punch Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 62 - 70 dots vertical, Kick Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 62 - 70 dots vertical Morrigan: Punch Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 24 - 32 dots vertical Mai: Punch Throw - 23 dots horizontal, 62 - 70 dots vertical Benimaru: Kick Throw - 22 dots horizontal, 62 - 70 dots vertical Yuri: Punch Throw - 23 dots horizontal, 62 - 70 dots vertical Athena: Punch Throw - 24 dots horizontal, 60 - 68 dots vertical ======================== Section 2: Special Throws ======================== Note: For super throws, there are a few frames of animation before the screen goes dark and you see the super flash. 2.1 Zangief (360 + P) Screw Pile Driver: 0 frames startup - Jab Version: 48 frames recovery, range 107 dots - Strong Version: 46 frames recovery, range 96 dots - Fierce Version: 44 frames recovery, range 86 dots (360 + K) Flying Powerbomb (far): 15 frames startup - Short Version: 50 frames recovery, range 86 dots - Forward Version: 52 frames recovery, range 86 dots - Roundhouse Version: 54 frames recovery, range 86 dots (360 + K) Atomic Suplex (close): 1 frame startup - All versions: range 98 dots (720 + P) Final Atomic Buster: 4 frames startup, 0 frames startup after super flash - All versions: 48 frames recovery, range 116 dots (QCF x 2 + K) Aerial Russian Slam: 4 frames startup, 5 frames after super flash - All versions: 33 frames recovery, range 82 dots horizontal, 66 - 80 dots vertical 2.2 E.Honda (360 + P) Ooichou Nage: 3 frames startup - Jab Version: 13 frames recovery, range 58 dots - Strong Version: 13 frames recovery, range 57 dots - Fierce Version: 13 frames recovery, range 56 dots (720 + P) Orochi Kudaki: 4 frames startup, 2 frames startup after super flash - Lvl 3 Only: 13 frames recovery, range 58 dots 2.3 Vega (D, U + K, B/F + P when close) Izuna Drop: 0 frame startup - All versions: range 82 dots horizontal, 66 - 80 dots vertical (DB, DF, DB, UF + K, B/F + P) Rolling Izuna Drop: 0 frame startup - All versions: range 56 dots horizontal, 52 - 88 dots vertical 2.4 Cammy (Tiger Knee + P, B/F + K when opponent on ground) Fatal Leg Twister: 0 frame startup - All versions: range 43 dots horizontal, -3 - 5 dots vertical (Tiger Knee + P, B/F + K when opponent in air) Cross Scissor Press: 0 frame startup - All versions: range 43 dots horizontal, -3 - 5 dots vertical 2.5 Morrigan (HCB + P) Vector Drain: 6 frames startup - All versions: 23 frames recovery, range 42 dots 2.6 Maki (jump off wall, QCB + MP/HP) Izuna Otoshi: 26 frames startup - All versions: 21 frames recovery, range 42 dots horizontal, 50 - 70 dots vertical (jump, HCF + P) Tengu Daoshi: 4 frames startup - All versions: 1 frame recovery, range 56 dots horizontal, 70 - 82 dots vertical (720 + P) Ajara Tengu: 4 frames startup, 4 frames startup after super flash - All versions: 24 frames recovery, range 58 dots (jump, 720 + P) Ku Chou Ajara Tengu: 4 frames startup, 4 frames startup after super flash - All versions: 1 frame recovery after landing, range 56 dots horizontal, 70 - 82 dots vertical 2.7 Akuma (DP + K, B/F + P when close to body) Hyakku Gou Tsui: 0 frame startup - All versions: range 26 dots horizontal, -2 - 18 dots vertical (DP + K, B/F + K when close to head) Hyakku Gou Sai: 0 frame startup - All versions: range 45 dots horizontal, 23 - 45 dots vertical 2.8 Iori (HCB, F + P) Kuzu Kaze: 8 frames startup - All versions: 32 frames recovery, range 52 dots 2.9 Yamazaki (HCB, F + P) Bakudan Pachiki: 6 frames startup - Jab Version: 35 frames recovery, range 75 dots - Strong Version: 35 frames recovery, range 72 dots - Fierce Version: 35 frames recovery, range 69 dots (HCB x 2 + P) Drill: 4 frames startup, 4 frames startup after super flash - All versions: 45 frames recovery, range 78 dots 2.10 Raiden (360 + K) Thunder Crush Bomb: 3 frames startup - Short Version: 27 frames recovery, range 85 dots - Forward Version: 27 frames recovery, range 82 dots - Roundhouse Version: 27 frames recovery, range 79 dots (DP + P) Jumping Lariat Drop: 25 frames startup - Jab Version: 65 frames recovery, range dots - Strong Version: 65 frames recovery, range dots - Fierce Version: 65 frames recovery, range dots (RDP + P, QCB + K) Front Suplex: 24 frames startup - All versions: 13 frames recovery, range 80 dots (720 + K) Destruction Bomb: 5 frames startup, 1 frame startup after super flash - Lvl 1: 27 frames recovery, range 102 dots - Lvl 2: 27 frames recovery, range 110 dots - Lvl 3: 27 frames recovery, range 118 dots 2.11 Vice (HCF + P) Nail Bomb: 3 frames startup - Jab Version: 22 frames recovery, range 52 dots - Strong Version: 22 frames recovery, range 50 dots - Fierce Version: 22 frames recovery, range 48 dots (HCB, F + P) Gore Fest: 6 frames startup - Jab Version: 24 frames recovery, range 52 dots - Strong Version: 24 frames recovery, range 50 dots - Fierce Version: 24 frames recovery, range 48 dots (QCF x 2 + P) Withering Force: 5 frames startup, 27 frames startup after super flash - All versions: 20 frames recovery, range 52 dots (HCB x 2 + K) Negative Gain: 5 frames startup, 1 frame startup after super flash - All versions: 52 frames recovery, range 76 dots 2.12 Benimaru (HCB, F + P) Benimaru Koreda: 6 frames startup - Jab Version: 21 frames recovery, range 48 dots - Strong Version: 21 frames recovery, range 44 dots - Fierce Version: 21 frames recovery, range 40 dots (HCB x 2 + P) Electrigga: 4 frames startup, 0 frames startup after super flash - Lvl 1: 27 frames recovery, range 52 dots - Lvl 2: 27 frames recovery, range 56 dots - Lvl 3: 27 frames recovery, range 60 dots 2.13 Ryuhaku Todo (HCB + P) Tatsumaki Souda: 6 frames startup - Jab Version: 28 frames recovery, range 64 dots - Strong Version: 28 frames recovery, range 66 dots - Fierce Version: 28 frames recovery, range 68 dots 2.14 Athena (HCF + P) Super Psychic Throw: 6 frames startup - All versions: 21 frames recovery, range 46 dots 2.15 Rock Howard (360 + P) Shinkuu Nage: 8 frames startup - All versions: 35 frames recovery, range 72 dots 2.16 Chang (HCB, F + P) Dai Hakai Nage: 5 frames startup - Jab Version: 20 frames recovery, range 88 dots - Strong Version: 20 frames recovery, range 80 dots - Fierce Version: 20 frames recovery, range 72 dots Final Notes - If there are any errors, let me know. - I didn't include data on Yun's Command throw because it wasn't included in the book for some strange reason. Posted by booda on 01:04:2002 09:31 AM: Could you imagine Zangief missing a FAB by just two pixels and Raiden connecting right after it with a Lv3 Destruction Bomb? If anyone can get sprites or screen shots of them game and put some translucent boxes on them, these numbers would have a little more perspective. Posted by hyt on 01:04:2002 10:01 AM: The only thing I'm really unsure about is the reference point. The book didn't explain it at all and I'm basing it on the throw information from the SF Zero and Zero 2 strategy guides by Gamest. I'm assuming that Capcom hasn't changed that part hopefully. I also forgot to mention that throws on counters get more range, but I couldn't find out how much. When I return to Toronto I'll try to put up a picture with the reference point. Posted by booda on 01:04:2002 01:33 PM: What are "throws on counters"? Posted by lonelyfighter on 01:04:2002 02:47 PM: Just for reference your life bar is a 144 pixels. So dots must be significantly smaller than pixels. Now lets get that frame data translated please. Posted by shoryukenH2 on 01:04:2002 08:51 PM: Thanks for translating this info! This thread should get a "sticky." I need to look at some of the recovery speeds of chara. I always thought Iori had relatively fast recovery on a missed command grab in contrast to Morrigan, but this data says that she recovers almost 10 frames faster. Maybe it's just the way the missed throw animations appear (Morrigan's eyes bug out and she goes "Uhhh!" and Iori just swings his arm). Posted by hyt on 01:04:2002 09:00 PM: Throws on counters mean successfully landing a throw during the startup animation frames of your opponent's move. lonelyfighter: 1 frame = 1 / 60 of a second. Anything else you need to know? Posted by Temujin on 01:05:2002 04:32 PM: Why don't you translate everything else that's in the book.. if you have time. Posted by yellow press on 01:06:2002 04:34 AM: Benimaru: Kick Throw - 22 dots horizontal, 62 - 70 dots vertical i think that is a punch throw. Posted by Grenun on 01:06:2002 09:17 AM: Where did you get the book at? Is there a site on the net I can order it or is it in any retail stores here in America? I noticed your location said Hong Kong so I wasn't sure if it was like Tekken Mook Books which are only produced in Japan. Posted by hyt on 01:06:2002 10:18 AM: Temujin: I'll translate whatever's within my ability and anything that hasn't been put up on SRK yet. No point in me putting up another post on roll data or Hit points if it's more or less going to be the same. My next project will be on "Blocking" (aka Parrying in the US) but I will need help since it's mostly text. Grenun: I got the book off an eBay auction. Look out for a seller named videogameya who puts a lot of japanese mooks on eBay for sale. Otherwise, if you could find some way to buy it off famitsu's site it would be ok. edit: The seller is selling another copy of the guide. Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.ca/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI...item=1055603786 Posted by arcticninja on 01:06:2002 09:23 PM: sweet, thanks for the info Hyt. Posted by soup or man on 01:07:2002 05:02 AM: Re: [Translation] CvS2 Throw Data quote: Originally posted by hyt (720 + P) Final Atomic Buster: 4 frames startup, 0 frames startup after super flash - All versions: 48 frames recovery, range 116 dots I got thrown out of my FAB recently The super Flashed...and i thought i had grabbed him, but really he had grabbed me...with a normal throw. Since there is 0 start up after the flash, that shouldn't have happened, right? Posted by noswad on 01:07:2002 06:10 AM: I'm guessing he executed the throw BEFORE you executed your FAB. He started reaching, and grabbed you the instant after your super flash ended.. Maybe? ^_^ I've hit/grabbed FAB before in other games and it's pretty much always been because of this. I try a move, and find that my opponent attempts to FAB me.. to my suprise, My move still comes out and hits him. One in a million type of thing tho, so I don't know. Posted by hyt on 01:07:2002 01:14 PM: It's a glitch I tell you! j/k I've been grabbed out of the Electrigga before too. I should have paid more attention to my opponent's sprite when I got the super flash. Anyways, it is possible that your execution frame and your opponent's execution frame happened at the same time, and that throws have more priority than super grabs (which is bullshit IMHO). Even though you have invincibility frames from the super, maybe it doesn't apply to throws. Worse comes to worse, the information I have could be wrong and I would suffer a public backlash. . Posted by lonelyfighter on 01:07:2002 04:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by hyt Throws on counters mean successfully landing a throw during the startup animation frames of your opponent's move. lonelyfighter: 1 frame = 1 / 60 of a second. Anything else you need to know? Well I actually meant stuff like execution, coliision and recovery frame stats for each move in the game. Like how long it takes for a particular move to recover. How long a move will leave you in block stun for when you block it. how long a move will leave you in hit stun for etc. these numbers are the meat of the mooks. Thats why there important. I sense you knew this and just misunderstood my question Hyt. Posted by hyt on 01:07:2002 07:18 PM: Oh THAT frame data. I'll think about that one. It would still be a bitch to do since there are so many characters with so many moves in the games. Let's not forget to mention the moves that are part of a chain. I'm quite iffy on those ones especially. There's also a section which represents frame advantage although if you take recovery frames and minus the guard stun frames you don't always get the same number. Confusing enough for ya? Posted by lonelyfighter on 01:07:2002 07:34 PM: I am very familiar with frame data. Any additional fram data would be nice it's just something to think about. After all it's your time and you have already done enough. Well I am very much appreiciative of what you have provided so more power to you. Posted by FalconPain on 01:07:2002 10:27 PM: So the only characters who don't risk being easily punch thrown out of their command throws (if done at the same time) are Gief, Raiden, Honda, and Vice? I note this because of at least one person who was able to throw me out of every Vector Drain attempt. This guide gives me a good reason why, so thank you for posting it. And since it's a special move attempt, I can't tech... Urgh, I need to work on my mixup game a bit. That and practice Raiden and Vice a lot more. FalconPain When f+fierce beats hcb,f+punch, something's wrong. Posted by DeadlyRaveNeo on 01:08:2002 06:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by FalconPain FalconPain When f+fierce beats hcb,f+punch, something's wrong. hehe, I agree, esp when you trade hits with Sagat's fierce and you always, always end up being dizzy first oh man so many numbers, I can't keep track of all the frames, thanks for taking the time to translate this though. good stuff. Posted by hyt on 01:08:2002 01:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by DeadlyRaveNeo hehe, I agree, esp when you trade hits with Sagat's fierce and you always, always end up being dizzy first oh man so many numbers, I can't keep track of all the frames, thanks for taking the time to translate this though. good stuff. Yeah... Sagat's s.HP takes as many frames to execute as the Vector Drain. Now if they are both executed at the same time we gotta see what has more priority: special throw or normal. Posted by lonelyfighter on 01:08:2002 02:47 PM: The s.Fp should have priority over the throw if done at the same time. Buy hey this is SF after all so who knows. Posted by FalconPain on 01:08:2002 06:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by DeadlyRaveNeo hehe, I agree, esp when you trade hits with Sagat's fierce and you always, always end up being dizzy first Eh, I was referring to the motion for a standard punch throw. Yeah, normals should be beating throws, with possible exceptions for some command throws and throw supers. Otherwise, there would be no defense against a throw other than teching or jumping, and jumping gets you killed even after the opponent whiffs. But throwing people out of command throws is ridiculous. (Alpha 3 memory: Beating Gief FAB with Juni's 360. On reaction to the super startup flash. I still don't know what I was thinking.) FalconPain Wondering if Ralf would have been top tier in this game, given how many people complained about Athena and Sagat crouching fierces. Posted by lonelyfighter on 01:08:2002 07:45 PM: Oh you were tlking about Sagats punch throw. I did not know that either. Still whatever has the faster exe time should win. Posted by Shinma_sama on 01:15:2002 09:20 PM: Thanx For posting this Hyt!!! You really have really helped out everyone here. BTW ummm...whats going on in Toronto 3S wise. Can we expect some new vidz anytime soon or some FAQs from you guys.....I saw that 3S Parry Exibition that was insane. Keep up the good work ya'll Mesatsu Posted by hyt on 01:15:2002 09:29 PM: Shinma_sama: Check your PMs Posted by emagneto on 01:27:2002 08:53 PM: Posted by pain on 01:28:2002 06:57 PM: Just a question about teching throws out of rolls; are you sure you can't tech while you're in a roll?..... Here's what happens to me, I use Guile and throw out a jab SB, and follow it; my friend rolls and I try to throw him, but I get teched.... am I throwing too late or something?.... it's still during his roll though.... Posted by hyt on 01:28:2002 07:24 PM: It's likely that you're throwing your friend just after he's finished the roll. A roll lasts for around 1/2 a second which is pretty close to Guile's recovery off a SB. All times are GMT. The time now is 12:18 AM. Show all 29 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.